JOHN THE BAPTIST BY RUDOLF STEINER

A lecture by
Valdemar W. Setzer
Member of the Anthroposophic Society in Brazil
www.ime.usp.br/~vwsetzer – this version: Jan 9, 2025
See the ppt presentation of this lecture and the assessment form

1. Jan. 5, 2025, lecture for the Chicago Rudolf Steiner Branch of the Anthroposophical Society in the USA, and interested people. Info: Andrei Onegin rudolftogethersteinerbranch att yahoo pt com
Questions: [1] What were the most important things that you have learned? [2] What are the biggest remaining doubts? [3] Comments. [4] What is your degree of satisfaction with this lecture? (1 - very unsatisfied, 5 - very satisfied, 100%): [5] Did you learn new things? (Yes: 100%, No). [6] Are you acquainted with Anthroposophy? (No, Yes slightly, Yes reasonably 66,7%, Yes very well 33,3%) My comments are preceeded by COMM.

1. [1] The degree of incarnation of JB. [2] How to work with this material. [3] I really appreciated the King James references, as well as the Greek and Hebrew. [4] 5. [5] Yes. [6] Yes, reasonably. COMM.: Yes, the fact that JB was not fully incarnated and could be directly inspired by an angel is very interesting. And that this also happened to Raphael and Novalis explains why they were so much attached to the Christ, could have done such extraordinary feats connected to the Christ, and have died so young. You may work with this material by selecting some excerpts that you find important, and reading Steiner's lectures about them. That's why I gave the GAs and lecture dates. Attention: there were so many citations, that some could have typos. If you find one, please advise me. I studied Hebrew to be able to work with the originals. I learned German as an adult (I was 28 when I began with it - after 7 years studying Anthroposophy) to be able to read Steiner in the original. I am not the only one that took this path.
2. [1] Dear Valdemar, thank you for the magnificent work correlating the Gospels and Steiner on the life of JB. This work showed these correlations in a very didactic way. [2] I didn't quite understand, on slide 44/45 where you mentioned the ten commandments showing (10+643). [3] I think that you could give this lecture promoted by our branch to the Anthroposophical Society on one of the next Saturdays to be defined. [4] 5. [5] Yes. [6] Yes, reasonably. COMM.: Yes, as I showed in the presentation, Steiner said it is very important to understand the Bible and the Christ, and not having just a sentimental view of them. BTW, as Steiner said in one of the Karma lectures, Christianity subsided for so many millennia because people felt that the Gospels contained important messages. Now it is necessary to understand those messages, so they can be followed in full consciousness and freedom. About the commandments, there are the traditional 10 (which I think are 9…) plus 603 others on various subjects, giving order to social relations and how to preserve the Jewish religion. See all of them here . I mention one of them:
   195 Deuteronomy 15:8 - On to give charity to the poor.
   "But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth."
   Steiner tells in the 5th Gospel that Jesus visited a pagan cult wich was degenerated, dominated by demons and the people were sick. I think the Jewish people did not fall into so much degeneration because they followed more or less the commandments. This worked at that time. If you observe Jewish fundamentalists today, they seem to live in the middle ages... Living as in the past (a Luciferic attitude) leads to some form of degeneration.
   As for giving a lecture to your Branch (I know which one it is, but I insert these comments here to give incentive to other Branches): I will be very very happy with it. Please tell your colleages about your idea; I don't like to promote myself. My suggestion is that it may be held on a Saturday from 9-12 am or from 10 am - 1 pm, with a break and at the end a time for questions and discussions. But if you prefer some other time, no problem. And let's invite other Branches and interested people. This could be something your Branch could do for Anthroposophy, aside from studying Steiner (I presume that's your main activity).
3. (I'm translating into English) [1] The relations among John the Baptist, Raphal and Novalis, and the common characteristic of not being 100% incarnated and having have lived so shortly. [2] I wish to go deeper into the observations of the Raphael Madonnas. [3] A very deep lecture, resulting from a profound study by Prof. Setzer. [4] 5. [5] Yes. [6] Yes, reasonably. COMM.: Steiner recommended meditating on a specific sets of Raphael's Madonnas - they are sold in 15 postcards, with some explanations, in many countries, see for example here. He said that this meditation had a healing power.
4. [1] The incorporation of Elijah and John the Baptist of an angel. The fact that John the Baptist was not high enough of an initiate to know a previous life as Elijah. [2] No doubts but much to study. [3] The First Baptist church of Arlington with the Michaelic ideas.or concepts. It is not necessarily that way with other churches. [4] 5. [5] Yes. [6] Yes, very well. COMM.: Unfortunately, I did not referres to the GAs where Steiner talks about the angel that was inspiring JB. They are the 124 and 127 - I think I made a mistake in the latter, referring to the 114. I have already complemented and corrected both (slide 28). I cited the GAs and lecture dates intending people to study the references. About that Baptist Church: it is wonderful seeing that the churches are progressing and becoming more opened, and getting rid of discriminations. I remembered the name of the church I mentioned as being liberal, and based upon Theosophy: It's the Liberal Catholic Church, look for it at wikipedia; it's astonishing that they "respect intellectual freedom" (at least on the opening of their Brazilian site). About my differentiation between concepts and ideas, see my bilingual paper
   https://www.ime.usp.br/~vwsetzer/conceito-cerebro.pdf
   Steiner does not make a clear difference between them. He just says in the Philosophy of Freedom that ideas are richer than concepts. I have the impression that I could establish a clear difference and showing that ideas cannot be stored in the brain and in any machine. Concepts are ideas expressed through symbols, e.g as words (the whole of science is conceptual!); they can be stored.
5. [1] Before the MG the spiritual world was observed through the astral body, but this capacity was decreasing feeling of isolation from that world. [Is it God's love that wants to keep this flame alive in us and if so then why?] I watch JeffMara podcast a lot and his show interviews people with Near Death Experiences. I am enthralled at the notion of Baptism simulating a NDE. [2] This is about the cosmic awakening of the I yet the lamb is not thought of as an individual type of being but rather one who blindly follows in the herd. Seems like a contradiction. [3] HB is Helena Blavatsky so it is distracting that here it means Human Being. Humorous actually. Raphael: March 28 or April 6, 1483 - April 6, 1520 Novalis: 2 May 1772 - 25 March 1801 Aries, Aries, Taurus, Aries Every sign has a body part associated with it with Aries it is the head, Taurus the neck. When we take our first breath in life, the world "gets to know us" as we are now among the living. With our last breath we bid farewell to "the world". He that commeth after me, he that commeth before me are all allusions to sequence hence time. This make for the ancient Saturn correlation. The Hermit is the 9 card in tarot and represents Virgo the sign opposite of Pisces. Pisces is the last sign of the zodiac and precedes Aries. Virgo is the last sign under the horizon, having to do with the self. It is before Libra the sign where being begins to acknowledge others. This presentation was super interesting. It is a springboard for me to study more into Anthroposophy. Thank you. [4] 5. [5] Yes. [6] Yes, reasonably. COMM.: Your "why". The divine bgeings had to abandon us, otherwise we would always be inspired by them in our thoughts and actions, and would not have developed free will. This is the answer to atheists (I don't' think this is a good denomination - they cannot explain what they don't believe; much better is "materialist") who ask: "If God is pure love, why did he create evil?" This creation was necessary. If there would be no evil, there would be no good, and nothing to choose in freedom. The flame exists but does not influence our conscious decisions and actions. After the Mystery of Golgotha, the individual I began to manifest itself without external influences. But this was only fully accomplished after the dawn of the 5th post-Atlantean epoch, in the beginning of the 15th century. Yes, John the Baptist had an imaginative consciousness, so he could observe how much the etheric body was separating in each drowned person. Nowadays NDEs cannot be induced, it is too dangerous of killing the person. As for the lamb, I presume the image has some occult meaning (if someone finds something about this in Steiner, please shout!). But there is an astral meaning: the lamb is a pacific animal; moreover, it was sacrificed in biblical times. So it could represent peace of mind and of actions, and self-sacrifice, which was the case with the Christ (who clearly knew what was going to happen with him, and could have escaped). As for HB (which I used as an abbreviation for "human being) also standing for Helena Balvatsky, I will continue to useit in the presentation to shorten the text, but next time I'll call the attention so that hearers do not make the confusion. Anyhow, whenever I encountered JB or HB in the text I always said the full names. As for the astrology mentioned by you, one has to be extremely careful with it, for a couple o reasons. 1. Humans have become quite independent of the influence of planets and the zodiac, otherwise we would not be free beings. 2. Astrology is highly dependent on the position of the Sun in relation to the zodiacal signs behind it. There are two big problems here. (a) Astrology uses ancient positions of the sun along the months. But due to the precession of the Earth axis (Platonic months), nowadays the used astrological constellations do not correspond to the actual position of the Sun. There is a one-month delay on this position. (b) Steiner called the attention to the fact that the zodiacal constellations do not have the same length along the ecliptic. For instance, Cancer is quite small, Leo, Virgo and Scorpio are very big, that is, the Sun stays much longer in the latter signs. But astrology uses the year divided into 12 equal times (or zodiacal spaces). BTW, I have a theory why people commemorate their birthday: the Sun has returned almost precisely to the point in the ecliptic as it was in the date of birth. So everybody that commemorates her/his birthday is and astrologer (a good point to make a joke with materialists commemorating their birthday…). Yes, my intention was to call the attention to Seiner's wonderful biblical explanations and to give incentives for further study - that's why I gave detailed references.
6. [1] I learned important connections between the bible and anthroposophical lectures. [2] No doubts, dear Val. [3] We had very good, scientific presentation. [4] 5. [5] Yes. [6] Yes, very well. RESP.: Yes, apart from the contents, I wanted to show the interpretative power of Anthroposophy. I am sure it is not possible to find it somewhere else. I find this interpretative power fascinating, and a demonstration that Steiner was correct. As for the "scientific" aspect , I tried to be objective and conceptual.