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Re: [ABE-L]: cnpq



Dear Dave, good morning!:

You're not an "imperialist gringo". Not even for a joke. Your comments and suggestions on statistics (and whatever) must be welcome anywhere around the globe. It is too bad that the US foreign policy is so imperialist, because it may separate people. But don't ever take that individually. We cannot as individuals be held responsible for everything in out countries, or the world for that sake.

As for  statistics in the Brazilian universities, I strongly favor a separation from mathematics. Not only at CNPq or CAPES, but even within the universities. Statistics is very important for  government, industries and business in general. The virtual absence of high level professional statisticians lead to many statistical jobs being taken by non statisticians. This would not be much of a problem if the jobs were well done. But I know factually many instances of gross errors, with appalling consequences to society  Now mathematicians tend to look down at this sort of applied science. There were times in the past that Ieven  thought that statistics would fit better in an engineering committee, rather than one of mathematics. I think that statistics could be on a par level with physics  mathematics, economy, the engineerings, etc.

There is also petty politics. Some twenty years ago, in S. Carlos (USP), we were pushing for an organization to house applied work for industries within the Math Institute. We lost, off course. During the hot discussion days, a very frank (and also a fine intelligence) math professor came to my office, and wrote on the board: "2/3. 1/3". He asked me: "do you know what is this?" Then he said: "this is the proportion of your department (Stat and Computer Sciences) in this Institute. And we will never let you guys prevail!"   The same situation holds on higher ranks (CAPES, CNPq, FAPESP).

I gave up considering this question a long time ago. It was only your intervention that triggered my reaction.

Long live the statisticians! Delenda mathematicians! (kidding) ;-)

Very kind regards.

.

On Fri, 2005-04-01 at 07:46 -0800, David Brillinger wrote:
Bom dia brasileiros, amigos.
Tenho uma sugestao de minha experienca canadiense.
Vou escrever ingles por causa da importancia.

Statistics was part of the Mathematics Committee until the early eighties.
I was on that Committee in 79-80 and a bunch of people suggested that I should press for a separate Statistics Committee.
My reaction was absolutely no need.
But during the deliberations one statistical applicant's research was substantially put down.
Someone who, to me was clearly very good, and has had a very successful career.
Well I switched opinions and a Statistics Committee got formed that has operated very successfully since.

My suggestion is that you press for a Statistics Committee, and surely you can make a very good case.
If that doesn't fly, then you compromise on adding another member, and given the high standards of the Brazilian probabilists, it makes sense that that is a probabilist.

By the way, the applied mathematicians were very sad when the statisticians left as they got much support from us.

Nao sou gringo imperialismo, mas querro que coisas muita boas pelos estatisticos e probabilisticos brasileiros.

Ate a proxima, David